Why no confirmations?

Discussion in 'The DX Zone' started by KI5OMM, Nov 6, 2021.

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  1. KP4SX

    KP4SX Premium Subscriber QRZ Page

    I think that is excessive. I guess I'm not enough of a big gun to pay that much.
    PU2OZT likes this.
  2. VA3VF

    VA3VF Ham Member QRZ Page

    As with almost everything else in life: It depends.

    Regarding this particular planned activation, consider the cost, it's huge. Hams may "work" for free, but the other service providers will hear none of it.;)

    Please note there is a $3 option as well, and a free LoTW upload after 1 year.

    It took me almost 40 years to buy a brand new transceiver (IC-7300). The same amount of time for a commercially built antenna (Hustler 6BTV). Before that, it was used junk and wire antennas. Yes, I could have purchase them much earlier, or even more expensive hardware, but I had other priorities. We do what we can with what is available at any given time.

    Just one example, something that was unheard of just a few years ago, rent-a-remote. After spending some cash pursuing that DX counter using the commercial remote, $15 may be the least of expenses.

    What I spent on both the transceiver and antenna, others will spend on the transmission line alone. Let's not talk about towers, full length monoband Yagis, legal limit amps, expensive transceivers, remote stations so on and so forth.

    The hobby has definitively changed, evolved, or moved backwards - one is free to pick the "appropriate" term.

    It is what it is, but as long as we can continue to fight over modes one "must" use to be a real ham, all that is secondary. The amount of money one has sunk into the hobby does influence ones opinion of what is right and wrong. :D:D:D:D:D
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2021
  3. WG7X

    WG7X Platinum Subscriber Platinum Subscriber QRZ Page

    If it's business, then by definition, it's not ham radio either, is it?

    A conundrum.

    Well, I quit paying for QSL cards, managers, or whatever decades ago. It's simply not that important to me compared to what is important: daily life putting food on the table and roof over our heads. Ham radio, as practiced these days, is a hobby. As such it is not life changing or anything like it.

    That said, I still enjoy many aspects of our shared avocation DXing, ragchewing, digital modes, all grist for the mill, and it's all fun. I do work the DXpeditions because I enjoy getting in the melee and just trying for that signal report and "73" from the DX. rarely if ever do I ask for any confirmation but if I get one these days, it would be on LOTW and it would be "free". If the DXpedition chooses not to upload their logs, that's OK because life still goes on without that "coveted" confirmation...

    So Gene, thanks for doing what you do, and I hope that you get to continue doing it. Looking at your bio, I can see that you're an accomplished and dedicated ham/ DX'er. Our thanks go out to you for doing what you do so well. So far, I think I've been able to work a few of your expeditions. Nice going, and we all appreciate it; really!

    As I enter into retirement soon, I will probably spend more time on the radio, doing whatever is there. Who knows, maybe even working you on a future DXpedition and sending in the required "donation" for the confirmation. Things change; who knows what the future holds?
  4. K1VSK

    K1VSK Ham Member QRZ Page

    Regardless of fiscal consideration, ham radio and DX’ing isn’t a business.

    To most of those of us in the pileup, it’s still just a hobby and being thought of as a revenue source is what businesses do.
  5. K5GS

    K5GS XML Subscriber QRZ Page


    You may certainly parse words if that's your game.

    Please reread what I wrote.

    I wrote it has to be managed like a business, I did not say it was a business.

    However, while it is a hobby:

    - We file DXpedition tax returns with the IRS for each year the project is active.
    - PayPal has different rules when donations are involved, especially if you're not a 501(c) (3).
    - PayPal sends a 1099K for each of our 2 accounts when we meet their clip level.
    - Bank accounts have to be opened with an an EIN.
    - In today's litigious society we try to protect ourselves from liability by forming an LLC. Not perfect but better than nothing.
    - Someone has to sign binding contracts for hundreds of thousands of dollars.

    In the past you may have done some DXpeditions, the process today for a major project is nothing like it was just 10 years ago.

    You're right, to most it's just a pile-up and a hobby, it lasts for the 2 weeks the DXpedition is on the air. For the team it's a 12 - 18 month commitment with reams of paperwork and many thousand e-mails. The Patriot Act has made the process even more intensive.

    You may call it whatever makes you feel comfortable.

    GS K5GS
  6. K1VSK

    K1VSK Ham Member QRZ Page

    While you call it parsing words, all of that is done to participate in a hobby. And without the hobby, there would be no reason for the business practices employed.
  7. K5GS

    K5GS XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

    GS K5GS
  8. WB3JAC

    WB3JAC XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    $15 does seem excessive to me. But, I may feel different if I make a contact with the team and start itching for that confirmation. ;)
    I wish the Bouvet team all the best and smooth sailing.
  9. WB3JAC

    WB3JAC XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    How long after making a payment is it reasonable to be annoyed? In my very short time doing this, I have ordered 5 online QSLa. Most logged to LOTW within a week of my paypal and sent the card in the mail shortly.
    One however, I mailed some greenstamps and never heard back after months. Maybe they got snatched by a postal worker. Did the paypal thing about 3 weeks ago and still nothing. Am I just impatient? It was a pretty big Dxpedition.
  10. W4PG

    W4PG Super Moderator Lifetime Member 279 Volunteer Moderator Platinum Subscriber Life Member QRZ Page

    If it's an expedition that has their own website, take a look there as they often give you information about when cards will go out, when LoTW will get uploaded, etc. Times do vary quite a bit.

  11. WB3JAC

    WB3JAC XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    Their website says nothing about timing.
    They did apparently get my postal mail submission, as I received a QSL card in the mail yesterday. The QSL was Nov 2. I mailed Nov 10.
    They have also been paid through OQSL.
    No LOTW confirmation
  12. ND3L

    ND3L XML Subscriber QRZ Page

    WORKED A semi rare station, sent for the card, received an EMAIL Saying I didn't send enough money, to send more via clublog. I got on Clublog and ordered cards, sent him an email telling him I paid on Clublog with copy of payment. I recvd an email on Jan 6th saying he would send the card in about 4 days. Now an 26th, no card. What now??? Country #191, hate to walk away
  13. WO7R

    WO7R Ham Member QRZ Page

    There really are two groups involved in this. The DXer, which is most of us, that sit home and work the other group, the DXpeditioners. It is the latter that determine how many DXCCs we get in the end. A lot of places are easy and work exactly "like a hobby" on both sides. Then, there's the top 50 or so that are perennially rare. These are another animal in costs and difficulty as far as activating them goes.

    Yes, you need a fine station, but if nobody can solve the mystery of the P5 bureaucracy (and, currently, everyone is failing), then nobody works P5. P5 is a chip shot for me from Arizona. It is the availability, not the intrinsic difficulty, that defeats me. And I have nothing to say about availability, except maybe being enlightened enough to send some money to those that maybe can from time to time. Before they set sail.

    You and I can talk all we want about how DXpeditioning ought to be. But platitudes like "it's just a hobby" do not pay the DXpeditioner's bills. Some of those operations cost 100,000 or 300,000 or even a million dollars, most of which has to be raised before they sail. Today, the DXpeditioner pays half of all costs. And that comes out to 10,000 to 20,000 apiece per trip. We, the stay-at-homes, are happy to let them pay such sums. However, we can't really count on this, though we have and we apparently will. It's a subsidy and subsidies are always vulnerable.

    When K5GS speaks, he's a guy that is actually in the big time, DXpeditioning game. He needs to be listened to. He sees the reality. It is he, and that handful like him, whose tolerance for all of it, including personal expenses, that determines what we work and how often.
  14. WO7R

    WO7R Ham Member QRZ Page

    Email the DX again. Be prepared to be told the card was mailed.

    The international mail system is more fragile than any of us realized. One of the many nasty things COVID has done has exposed this.

    That said, there always is going to be a fraction of one's QSL cards that go astray. Corrupt postal officials looking for green stamps. Wildcat strikes that strand mail. The list is endless.

    As long as you are getting at least 95 per cent of your QSL cards back, you're doing it right. If it is lower than that, then you are somehow sending cards that attract the attention of corrupt officials. If you are using OQRS (and I always use it when offered), I don't know what the issue might be, except the outgoing mail is struggling.

    But, you will eventually end up writing some of them off. Nobody gets them all.

    The related thing to do is "work someone else". The countries you listed are not all that rare, though at this stage of the game, they may seem so to you.

    If you struggle to confirm them, work someone else. For 3D2, 7P, and HC8, you should get a new chance to work them just about annually. Heck, except for HC8, you should be able to work the other two this calendar quarter. 3D2AG is very active.
  15. W1VT

    W1VT Ham Member QRZ Page

    I checked LoTW and I have confirmations for 7P8RU on 160 as well as HD8R on 160 and 75 SSB.
    LoTW is more convenient than getting the cards checked.

    Last year I finished my goal of working 150 countries on 160 meters!
    Why 150? It is a nice round number and the next endorsement, 175, isn't likely from an ordinary location in the suburbs on 160M.

    I'm still working on 75M DXCC to complete working 5B DXCC on phone.
    I got my 5B DXCC years ago but I thought it may be nice to do it three times.
    CW, digital and Phone.

    I just confirmed #241 on 80 meters by sending a card for 4L1FL to EA7FTR, following the QSL managers instructions. I was surprised to get a card back in three weeks!
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2022

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